The Problem with Stickman’s View of Thailand

| February 21, 2011 | 275 Comments | 26,595 views

Over his long successful run, Stickman has written some awesome columns-chocked full of new information impossible to get anywhere else and about subjects where only long time connected Expats know the real skinny.

Last weeks wasn’t one of them.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanBangkokWeeklyColumn2011/Thailand-Car-Ownership.htm

With the announced sale and/or closure of Stickmanbangkok.com, quality is expected to inevitably suffer as the site winds down and the incentive to maintain the brand name diminishes, but this week’s column was a disgrace to all the great Stickman columns of yore and serves as an exemplar of what’s wrong with Stickman, his attitude toward Thailand, life in Thailand, and enjoying and being happy in Thailand.

Facts and philosophy are what’s wrong with this week’s Stickman.

Factually, his characterization of the Thai traffic enforcement system and, the gross over exaggeration of the danger of dealing with Thai policeman when you’re not guilty of anything are waaaay wrong.

Philosophically, the engendered attitude toward living in a foreign culture and country are waaaaay wrong too.

So let’s get right into what Stickman gets wrong and what is wrong about his approach to Thai life.

This quote is an executive summary of Stickman’s facts and views.

It’s a damning indictment on the country as a whole that perhaps the major reason for selling the car was the marked increase in aggressive hassles from men in brown uniforms that drivers face today.  When you dread being targeted by police and constantly face accusations for things you never did, it puts you off even using the car.

-Stickman

First factual error, the Western system of traffic enforcement is better than the Thai system.

The Thai traffic enforcement system is rational, consistent, effective, and humane—once you wrap your head around it and ditch your preconceived notion that everything in The World is better than everything in Thailand.

For a person like Stickman who has lived in Thailand for years, speaks Thai fluently, reads Thai, is married to a Thai lady, and who for years spent his workday in close contact with Thais its a bit surprising he is unable to step back and see the forest instead of just individual trees.

Frankly, the Thai system of traffic enforcement is superior to the U.S. system.

In the U.S., hordes of highly paid policeman use expensive high tech equipment and spend their lives mostly enforcing and ticketing infractions that have little relationship to safety and exist mostly as a way for the police department to pay its salaries and put money into local government coffers. In Los Angeles, a common sight is a LAPD traffic officer whose salary and benefits costs taxpayers in excess of $100,000 a year with a brand new BMW motorcycle equipped with a shotgun, handgun, taser, handcuffs, multiple magazines, state of the art radio and laptop computer with a $5,000 laser gun sitting on a side street where there hasn’t been an accident or fatality in years handing out traffic tickets to every car exceeding a speed limit set so low 80% of the cars violate it everyday—– and where effective countermeasures like active laser jamming have been made illegal.

Seat belt laws, cell phone laws, low speed limits, laws about having a dog in your pickup bed, baby seat laws, window tinting regulations, etc. generate millions for local governments and provide policeman ready excuses to engage in what would be otherwise unconstitutional searches of people cars and otherwise unconstitutional interrogations of people going about their lawful business.

In the U.S., any ticket is going to cost you over $100 and, more likely, close to $300. Add on the 10% increase in your insurance for 3 years from the points on your license and, even a minor infraction, will end up costing you almost $1000 — that’s dollars not baht. Multiple tickets will cost you $1,000s in fines, higher insurance, and inconvenience.

In Thailand, breaking the law and getting caught costs 100 THB ($3) in the Issan countryside, 200 THB ($7) in Bangkok, and 400-800 THB in Silom and, maybe on Sukhumvit between Soi 4 and Thonglo. Getting ticketed adds no points, no increase in your insurance, no record kept, and no danger of losing your license. If  you keep your wits about you and your temper under control, a traffic stop is equivalent to a stop and go penalty at the local racetrack.

Infrequently, you’ll have to pay for something you haven’t done. On a motorcycle in Bangkok, it’s not keeping to the left side of the road. On the freeways in and around Bangkok, it’s alleged speeding.  In the Issan countryside, you’ll never have to pay when your innocent. In all cases, the fine is inconsequential—less than $10.

Hey, you infrequently have to pay large fines for things you haven’t done in the U.S. and you encounter corruption in the U.S. too.

When you are innocent, you can argue if you are polite about it but, once in awhile, even when you’re innocent you’ve got to pay.

Compare the Thai system and the U.S. system and you make the judgment which is more driver friendly and civilized.

My vote goes for the Thai way.

Whatever way you go, running away from Thailand because twice a month you have to pay $20 in traffic fines seems a bit cowardly.

Second, the Stickman claim that Thai police target farang——not just target farang but, actually. go hunting for them.

Last summer I drove 20,000 kilometers all over Northeast and Northwest Thailand. Most of the time, I was flagrantly violating Thai traffic laws by doing twice the posted speed limit, running red lights, making illegal U-turns, parking where I shouldn’t and even driving the wrong way down one way streets.

I drove through numerous police road blocks including the ones on the most heavily traveled highways in and out of Bangkok to Korat, Pattaya, and Ching Mai and didn’t pay  a single fine.

I was stopped only two of three times and when I was stopped, the policeman asked for my license and when a valid Thai license was produced I was waved through.

During these 3 months, I paid zero money to policeman outside of Bangkok.

My experience is far, far, far from what Stickman describes and reading his column I wonder if we are talking about the same country.

I don’t know where Stickman drives or how he drives, but his contention that a white face is an automatic infraction doesn’t match reality.

On the motorcycle in Bangkok last summer, I was stopped 2 or 3 times in 3 months of daily driving. Each time the drill was  pretty much the same, the policeman asked for my license.. When this was produced, he asked for my tax stamp. When this was produced he asked to see a copy of my registration. When this was produced he waved me through. Notice that I respect Thai laws by obeying all the paperwork requirements just like I do in the U.S.

Once in awhile, it is clear that the police just want some money. On the motorcycle, the policeman will claim that you didn’t keep to the left. Since “left” is not defined this is an indefensible charge. On these occasions, I give the policeman 100 or 200 THB and he’s happy.

Frankly, giving the policeman $3 is hardly a momentous event in my day. My daily cuppa at Starbucks costs about the same.

Getting your panties in a bunch and running back to New Zealand because you have to pay a $3 fine once a month hardly seems rational and anything, even if it is morally wrong, anything where the consequence is a $3 fine can’t really be that wrong.

Every time I have been pulled over in a Bangkok police motorcycle roadblock, the police were pulling over everyone and everyone was paying. It was equal opportunity corruption.

Reservation girls target farang. Thai traffic policemen don’t.

Third, the claim that Thai police will take you to jail for no reason, charge you with a serious crime you haven’t committed, and make you pay an enormous fine for your freedom.

I’ve been waved over a couple of times in the wee hours of the morning with a scantily clad girl on the back of my motorcycle. Both times, the police made the girl empty her purse and felt up her breasts and vagina (through her clothing) looking for drugs and simply asked for my license. Each time when nothing was found we were on our way within 5 minutes.

I’ve also been through numerous drunk driver roadblocks. Again, the policeman took a look, smelled my breath, decided I was obviously not drunk and waved me through.

Very professional.

Never have I had any problems with false accusations or anything more serious than a small fine.

I put it to you that you are in more danger in the U.S.

Innocent people constantly get shot and killed in the U.S. during routine traffic stops because they didn’t want to kiss the policeman’s ass or didn’t show the proper “respect”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant

http://hiphopwired.com/2010/06/13/5-nopd-officers-charged-with-shooting-burning-katrina-victim/

U.S. police are corrupt too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampart_scandal

In fact, traffic police corruption has cost me waaaaaaay more in the U.S. than in Thailand.

My theory is that the farang accounts you read on the internet, including Stickman’s, stem from Western drivers who get pulled over or go through a roadblock, don’t understand what is happening, get on their high horse and start yelling, screaming, and protesting and start a pissing contest with the policeman.

Most of the time, they are guilty of something like drunk driving or speeding and try to bluster and bluff their way through by putting up an aggressive confrontational front and hope that the policeman will back down.

The other times, they are not guilty of anything but are drunk or high, don’t keep their cool, and end up putting themselves in a pickle.

These guys are idiots because the proper way to handle the situation where you are guilty is just pay the fine. It simple, straightforward, takes care of the problem, its cheap and, frankly, it’s justice being served. You broke the law so own up to your words and action and pay the penalty.

Don’t make the policeman beat around the bush, just offer him a reasonable amount.

Even if you are guilty of something like drunk driving which, in The World, would end up costing you $1,000′s of dollars of legal fees and fines, result in a permanent criminal record that will follow you for the rest of your life, prevent you from being hired by most large corporations in the U.S., and make  you waste the next 10 weekends in an orange jumpsuit picking up trash by the side of the highway, the worst that will happen to you in Thailand is you will give up a little money.

If you keep your wits about you and offer to pay the fine on the spot, you won’t even get arrested and spend a night in jail.

If you get pulled over for something serious and  you are guilty, offer to pay right there. If you don’t have much money on you, ask to go to an ATM to get some.

Most of the time, the money you pay will be less than what you will have to pay later and, after all, you are guilty and the lower on the organizational chart you settle the less you pay.

Try to pay the officer directly. If that doesn’t work try to pay the officer in charge on the scene. If you are taken back to the police station pay the supervisor there.

A couple of hundred dollars and just going home with the incident behind you is waaaaay less than the what you pay and the consequences of being caught doing the exact same thing in The World.

Which brings us to Stickman’s philosophy on living in a foreign country.

The proper attitude toward being in Thailand is to think of it as a game.

First, be thankful there actually exists this wonderful place full of things waaaay different than anything you’ve experienced before, that will yield up wonderful unforgettable experiences, never dreamed of adventures, and is covered in a swarm of beautiful, both physically and spiritually, women predisposed toward loving you.

Second, be thankful that you actually have the time, the money, and the good fortune to be able to spend a portion or your life there. Most guys are stuck in dead end jobs, doing uninteresting work they have no interest in, getting paid shit and pissing way their lives grinding out a subsistence life and life style. Be thankful you’re not them.

Third, realize that all the wonderful things are not going to fall from heaven and land in your lap while you are sitting by the pool getting a tan. You have to go out and find them and, also, you have to figure out how to get them. Sort of like the Sword and the Stone. The Sword is sitting there embedded in the stone and you can only have it if you figure out the puzzle.

So the proper philosophy for living in Thailand is, in the immortal words of Wayne from Wayne’s World —– Game On!

Win, lose,or draw, be thankful you have a seat at table, chips in front of you, and get dealt in.

Who could ask for anything more or not be happy with the situation?

The answer is Stickman and all the other Cheap Charlie, bitch and moaners, and the Haters who seem to have nothing better to do than fill the comment sections of the blogs with their jealousy, hatred, and, general dissatisfaction, with the lives they have chosen.

If all you do is sit around getting jealous at what the other guy has and bitching and moaning about what you don’t have, you’ll end up like Stickman —— giving up in defeat.

Think about these two philosophies and make your own decision about which is best.

This comment by an Anonymous Expat sums it up:

I’m not interested in getting into an exhaustive, point by point battle over this issue, but it has always fascinated me that mild-mannered Kenny is so disliked by the Thailand ex-pat community, even on the days when he posted on the Mango site and didn’t have his own site, he was always disliked on a gut level, and I think that says something about the Thai ex-pat community, that pretty much everyone, including you, dislike him.

I would almost use Kenny as a litmus test for what sort of ex-pat you are dealing with – if you like Kenny, you are one kind of guy with probably one set of attitudes towards Thai people and Thailand, if you hate him, you are another. It’s almost like the way you can tell a huge amount about a person and his attitude towards success and achievement by wether he is anti-American or not.

I’ll tell you partially why I seem to be more emotionally involved in this than would appear normal for someone who had no involvement in the affair. I came to Thailand a bright eyed young man and had tons of good experiences. I begin reading the blogs on Thailand and became poisoned by their bitter mentality and became bitter myself – it didn’t matter that nothing they said really matched my experience, that my interactions with Thai people were so much more positive, at the end of the day I was a newbie, things were confusing and uncertain and could be explained all sorts of ways, and the Old Guard spoke with authority.

I began to hate Thai people and Thailand based on the supposedly wise and canny revelations of the Old Guard on what’s supposedly really behind the Thai smile and similar nonsense, and my happiness in Thailand turned to bile, based almost entirely on what I read. I know, I know, it’s my fault that I allowed myself to be so easily led, and that’s true, it is, but what can I say I was young and was looking for wisdom from the people who had been in country for longer, and I trusted what I read online more than what I actually experienced and my own judgement. I also personally know several people, young guys, who became bitter and hateful and poisoned about Thai people based on reading the Thai blogs, when their own experiences never matched what they read online.

It took me a while to regain my independence of judgement and realize that something is seriously wrong with the Thailand ex-pat community, and that they poison the country for countless people. This all may sound very silly, but I think it is far more serious than it might seem, and a huge portion of the Thai ex-pat comm is quite literally ruined by immersion in the Thai blog scene.

Kenny was something completely different – a guy who was not bitter and who had a positive take on things and tried to figure them out. I suddenly felt that my own relative success and fun living in Thailand and interacting with Thais was not a fluke but might be the norm for a normal person. I felt more sane, no longer such a standout in my attitude towards Thailand.

But at the end of the day Kenny was jumping into a pond populated by a particular kind of fish, and I don’t think he ever got over his amazement at what kind of fish he suddenly found himself amongst, but the fish certainly didn’t want him disturbing their pond.

And that’s cool. It’s all over now at any rate. The Thai ex-pat community is what it is and will never be anything different, and I understand and accept that now, and why it has to be that way, why Thailand draws these kinds of people, and why no one should challenge the world which these people have built for themselves, however fictional.

The Kenny crowd and the Mango, Stickman, whatever crowd really should not be mixing, that is the truth at the end of the day – the one will simply be amazed and the other will be infuriated. They are two separate mentalities that should not come together.

BigBabyKenny

Comments (275)

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  1. Insane Posse Member #10 says:

    Ahhhhh….ummmmmm, Hey there Prufwreck, forget what screen name you were using (….again)?

    No, we haven’t forgotten that you have *YET* to answer those 2 simple questions (and in case yourre wondering what day of the week this is, well, hate to inform you that although it looks like the weekend, it isn’t the weekend……Song kran, remember?)

    The wheels are coming off…..again. Lay of the recreational drugs fly boy.

    Bobbyy (Prufrock) says:
    April 11, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you can not bear to face. And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve feebly stapled together. . .

  2. Prufrock says:

    Hi BBG or whatever you’re calling yourself these days in a vain attempt to avoid detection.
    Word in the Kokosphere is that daffy’s taking Kenny’s name off his blog.
     
    This would be the same blog into which the lying sack of shit claims to have no creative
    input.
     
    This would be the blog daffy built to stalk and harass a man he has never met and has
    only second or third-hand information on.
     
    And daffy would be the guys that no one  . . . . absolutely NO ONE engages in ANY type of
    conversation for fear of winding up in a tedious, closely worded slurry of his verbal effluvia.
     
    Oh yeah . . . . .  Fuck you daffy.
     
    Just . . .
    (nope, no-o-o-o-o  . . .  not that  s-o-o-o  2000-and-late “Wow”
    you’d kinda hoped for
    after that  “Just”  (up there)
    . . . . . nope . . . . just  . . . . . fuck you, you queef-lighting internet goof ;-)
     
    (dig it, douche . . . .  it’s a tone-poem     ;-)

  3. Prufrock says:

    Obviously . . .  free beer is flowing in the dorm.

  4. Insane Pussy Mumbler says:

    Altogether now…
    I AM GOAT
    :)
     

  5. Insane Posse Member #4 says:

    I see Insane Posse Member #4 isn’t taken so I”ll claim it as mine.

    How about an altogether now….Prufrock is as bad as Kenny when it comes to not addressing direct questions. It’s obvious from the questions that he can’t answer it. These 9-1-1 defenders are simply fools chasing after something they’ll never catch. Presuming their goal is to get the people they claim are responsible for 9-1-1 to be tried and convicted.

    Sorry Prufrock, but you’re no closer to your ultimate goal now than your were 5 years ago. The people you claim are responsible will live out their lives and die without any of them standing before a judge in any venue.

    Personally, I don’t take anything you say seriously nor do I take anything on this blog seriously. It’s a playground of misfits. Surely you see that by the daily garbage that passes for content here, thus my acquisition of the Name “Insane Posse Member #4″. The previous comment to mine is a prime example.

    Apparently this is what passes for quality content. You have lied about so many things it’s not worth me going on about their merit, so I won’t.

  6. Patrick says:

    Normally, this would leave a seldom-employed, third-rate academic and all ’round “non-qualifier”  like these disgusting slugs  over in the corner, complaining bitterly . . . . . But again, BBG, like daffy, finds himself on the wrong side of it here. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully . . . .Google it) Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done for them. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains are relevant . . . . you guys definitely are not. Smear the messenger if you must, you fools, but 9/11 skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.  And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together.  . . . .and again in a follow-up  . Normally, this would leave a seldom-employed, third-rate academic and all ’round “non-qualifier”  like these disgusting slugs  over in the corner, complaining bitterly . . . . . But again, BBG, like daffy, finds himself on the wrong side of it here. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully . . . .Google it) Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done for them. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains are relevant . . . . you guys definitely are not. Smear the messenger if you must, you fools, but 9/11 skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.  And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together.
    Thank you

  7. Prufrock You Ignorant Slut says:

    You are irrelevant.

    Live and Learn.

    You lost.

  8. BJ says:

    Smear the messenger if you must,  skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America. I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.  And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together.  . . . .and again in a follow-up  . Normally, this would leave a seldom-employed, third-rate academic and all ’round “non-qualifier”  like these disgusting slugs  over in the corner, complaining bitterly . . . . . But again, BBG, like daffy, finds himself on the wrong side of it here. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully . . . .Google it)  skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.  And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together.  . . . .and again in a follow-up  . Normally, this would leave a seldom-employed, third-rate academic and all ’round “non-qualifier”  like these disgusting slugs  over in the corner, complaining bitterly . . . . . But again, BBG, like daffy, finds himself on the wrong side of it here. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully . . . .Google it) Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done forthem. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently. in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done forthem. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love soSmear the messenger if you must, you fools, but 9/11 skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.  And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together.  . . . .and again in a follow-up  . Normally, this would leave a seldom-employed, third-rate academic and all ’round “non-qualifier”  like these disgusting slugs  over in the corner, complaining bitterly . . . . . But again, BBG, like daffy, finds himself on the wrong side of it here. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully . . . .Google it) Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done forthem. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.fervently.

  9. Insane Posse Member #5 says:

    @ Prufrock

    But for the trouble you’ve caused in seeking redress for your perceived slight you have now turned yourself into the bear that they’re all crazy to bait.

    While their motives are not as pure as they’d have us believe, there are way more of them than you.
    And you’ve now pissed off more than two or three.

    Question is: Do you really want to spend the rest of your life fighting this battle?
    Do you really think anybody cares about these petty crimes you threaten to expose here?

    Leave the delusional grander to your tormentors. It’s just you now . . . . . wounded and lonely, like an animal in a cage of your own making, beating your head against the dirt. The only appeal you retain in the face of their attacks is the appeal of the underdog.

    This is the real world Prufrock.
    The underdog gets ripped to shreds.
    People wander off then and they find another show.

    Take a good look around you. There’s a lot more worse things going on in this world these days than what you think was done to you.

    Take down your site.
    Get on with your life.

    Move on.

  10. Prufrock says:

    @ Pierre
    You spelled Bobbyy incorrectly ;-)
    @ BBG aka IPM#3  “in the words of your love toy daphne “deep breathes. deep breathes”
    @ IPM #4  (my goal?) what would you know about any goal I have ?  would you even know what a goal is ;-?
    With good folks like BJ and Patrick doing their best to spread the joy and fellowship of 9/11 skepticism and adding their
    noteworthy efforts (sneaked out of daphne and SBDOTUK-TUK meister’s copy and paste seminar to post  . . thanks guys ;)
     
    @ ALL
    9/11 was an inside job
    Your “elected” representatives are in Wall Street’s pocket
    Your government does whatever that criminal conspiracy calling itself a country  (Khazarstan/Israel) wants it to do.
    Your corporations have torn up the constitution
    You have a bunch of fundamentalist Xtian pedophiles infesting what may be left of the country’s spiritual life
    Your great corporate model GE is responsible for the cloud of radioactive shit that’s currently nourishing nursing women
    Your foreign policy (the one over which you have NO control  –see above) is universally reviled)
     
    But you guys seem to just be eating this shit up.
    You appear to be enjoying living in this shit.
    You love it.
    You spend all your time looking for corn amounts the stinking turds they leave for you.
     
    Those of you who actually live here have for years been “face to face” with a cartoon version of what’s been done to your own countries.
    And some of you have the effrontery  to  ridicule the locals for their “naiveté”  . . . . . . .   just look into a mirror.
     
    As Jesse Ventura says in his manifesto from we “the serfs” to farang ruling class,
    “YOU
    control our world. You’ve poisoned the air we breathe, contaminated the water we drink, and copyrighted the food we eat. We fight in your wars, die for your causes, and sacrifice our freedoms to protect you. You’ve liquidated our savings, destroyed our middle class, and used our tax dollars to bailout your unending greed. We are slaves to your corporations, zombies to your airwaves, servants to your decadence. You’ve stolen our elections, assassinated our leaders, and abolished our basic rights as human beings. You own our property, shipped away our jobs, and shredded our unions. You’ve profited off of disaster, destabilized our currencies, and raised our cost of living. You’ve monopolized our freedom, stripped away our education, and have almost extinguished our flame. We are hit… we are bleeding… but we ain’t got time to bleed. We will bring the giants to their knees and you will witness our revolution!


    Signed


    the serfs”




    And daffy, BBG and TIMBUKTU, there,    you “mighty” clowns are asking me for an action plan and a deadline?


    Shit . . . . . as daffy says when BBG pulls out of his flabby arse and needs a gobble from daffy . . . . .


    “Do I have to do everything for you?”






     

     

     
     

    B

  11. Prufrock says:

    @ Insane Posse Member #5
    I see you missed this: “Take a good look around you. There’s a lot more worse things going on in this world these days than what you think was done to you.”
    But yeah, As I was putting that together I just knew that one of you geniuses would muster up the accumulated brainfarts that pass for his intelligence and cut and paste this.


    So I made the distinction between the inward looking Keith and the outward looking critics of 2011 Amerikan real politic.
    (Too subtle for you?)


    The usual suspects at this level of stupidity, obtuseness and utter disingenuousness here would be keith summers, daffy, SBTIMBUKTU BBG et al.


    But (as per usual) you failed to actually read the post. (Why read it when you can read into it and edit and redact the parts that burn you?)


    9/11 IS a significant crime perpetrated by your government
    It’s investigation (a proper investigation needs to be undertaken before America
    slides into the abyss) or do you actually and most pitifully believe that you are an insider
    who’s actually benefiting from the destruction of your country. (SEE ABOVE)


    Keith just has Keith’s problems to worry about. He’s sick.
    You?


    Me? daffy dickhead’s already had his flabby-ass bluff called on that one.
    Are you kidding?


    You’re just a pack of moral cowards who (obviously) will seize upon any opportunity to smear and falsify. Your favourite gambit being the lazy-ass “pot-kettle” nonsense you can freely use if you first admit that you can’t fucking read.


    Really
    what a pack of fools

  12. George says:

    Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done for them.

    Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  

    There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains are relevant . . . . you guys definitely are not. Smear the messenger if you must, you fools, but 9/11 skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done for them. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains are relevant . . . . you guys definitely are not. Smear the messenger if you must, you fools, but 9/11 skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.  And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together.  . . . .and again in a follow-up  . Normally, this would leave a seldom-employed, third-rate academic and all ’round “non-qualifier”  like these disgusting slugs  over in the corner, complaining bitterly . . . . . But again, BBG, like daffy, finds himself on the wrong side of it here. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully . . . .Google it)

    Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done forthem. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains are relevant . . . . you guys definitely are not.And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together.  . . . .and again in a follow-up  . Normally, this would leave a seldom-employed, third-rate academic and all ’round “non-qualifier”  like these disgusting slugs  over in the corner, complaining bitterly . . . . . But again, BBG, like daffy, finds himself on the wrong side of it here. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully . . . .Google it) Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done forthem. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains are relevant . . . . you guys definitely are not.

  13. George says:

    And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together.  . . . .and again in a follow-up  . Normally, this would leave a seldom-employed, third-rate academic and all ’round “non-qualifier”  like these disgusting slugs  over in the corner, complaining bitterly. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully.Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains . . . . you guys definitely are not. Smear the messenger if you must, you fools, but  skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myselft never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done for them. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains  . . . you guys definitely are not. Smear the messenger if you must, you fools, but 9/11 skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.  And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable characteristic to this straw man you’ve  feebly stapled together. Either that or they’re both  too insensitized  and too stoopid to feel the water heating up or they have fallen for theidea that it’s all being done for their own good. They’ll just love it when it’s finished  :-).(Something like the frog-boilanalogy, there gully.Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains . . . . you guys definitely are not. Smear the messenger if you must, you fools, but  skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myselft never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.Sometime in the not too distant past, somebody convinced daffy and gully that was being done tothem was actually being done for them. Too scared to question this and too swamped with the mere economics of dat-to-day living at this point I suspect thatthey are beyond help.  There’s daffy arranging the blinders on anyone who’ll give him a minuet (I’ll,um, keepthat one and there’s gully-burgers over there polishing up the chains he’s learning to love so fervently.The blinders and the chains  . . . you guys definitely are not. Smear the messenger if you must, you fools, but 9/11 skepticism and research and a call to end the cover-up and to properly investigate this horrific assault on America’s people and her freedoms . . . these arerelevant.Smear and misdirect if you must but never once assume that it will make one iota of difference to what Iand many others see as having happened to America.I have never claimed relevance for myself. (That’s your label for an ordinary man who merely postssome important truths you  can not bear to face.  And as usual it is again you who seeks to attributesome vulnerable.
    .

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    .

  14. Prufrock says:

    @daffy’s imaginative BD? crew  (featuring a severely academically challenged but highly “relevant” BBG)
    I’m impressed with what you chaps can do with an iPhone, your free hand and a little practice.

  15. Prufrock says:

     
    I’m still amazed that with the recent TEPCO stone-walling and smoke-screening of dramatic events at Fukushima that
    people would believe anything that big corporates say anymore.  Or that they would believe uncritically  what their bought-and-paid-for big government says about anything except the White house Xmas tree and Presidential pets and Michell’s wardrobe.
    The current civil religion of “following the crowd ” and ill-informed fear of being seen as “conspiracy theorists” and “whack-jobs”
    (love it:) paralyzes critical faculties and reduces the hoi poloi  to cowering ciphers.
    Fear is tyranny’s ultimate weapon.
    Tyrants recognize that above all else.
    It’s an old trick.
    As old as governments.
     
    But the fear weapon can cut both ways.
    If mishandled fear alone can send uncontrollable mobs of frantic citizens into the streets.
    So, in Sendai and more specifically in Fukushima fear (generated by “information” was at frost controlled by TEPCO)
    Now it’s in the Japanese government’s hands. In the Fukishima meltdown case, fear-motivated activism  is still being
    controlled . Mobs of rioting common people would serve no purpose. The time for action was twenty years ago when
    TEPCO and the pro-nuclear establishment were pushing for the Japanese commitment to nuclear.
    So now, really, in the face of what we see unfolding here there is little else to do but to control the information and the fear.?
     
    9/11 investigation is different.
    Why?
    Well fear motivated activism was exploited to motivate uncritical approval of expenditures and military action.
    It had been pre-planned. The US needs Afghanistan for a its oil and gas pipelines from the massive Central Asian fields.
    If it can grab Iraq and maybe Iran while their at it they will have one the monopoly game.
    And winning the monopoly game is the only course of action they have at this stage.
     
    Who decided this?
    When did you ever get to vote on this.
    Why are you shovelling tax revenues into this black hole corporate campaign to bankrupt Amerika and to
    render it little else but a reservoir of dumbed down, subsistence level citizens who can be (by fear and hate again) easily motivated to fight
    anywhere for “US interests”.
    Why are you sending your babies off to die for this?
    Too hard to grasp. (irrelevant perhaps?)
    Is what I am saying here, irrelevant?
    I accept that you with your important lives in local entertainment and high finance might  be indifferent but
    indifference is your prerogative. You seek to be indifferent. There is I suppose some measure of comfort to be taken from the attitude that indifference is you pro-active stance here.  Rather than admit that your indifference arises from apathy laziness or ignorance it is far more palatable to advance the idea that you have chosen to be indifferent . It goes down better that way.
     
    On the other hand, I chose to  keep talking about these things.
    Well just look at what has been done and what is currently being done to the America most of us grew up with.
    My relevance (as a non-bylined commenter on a minor blog) is not even under discussion except by those at pains to
    exploit the most specious of trumped up nonsense. I wonder here; what are they so afraid of here?
     
    Anyway, here’s an  American who in spite  of years of public service to his country  is not so fearful.
    I also suspect that after this interview he was instructed to curtail his opinions but here they are before that happened.
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnihfVw5MOc
     
    OK Here’s a clip of Bill Beardon, Afghanistan station Chief and uber-CIA agnate who is intimately connected
    with the Sept 11 attacks on the people of Amerika. This was a Dan Rather interview that got little play the day after 9/11
    Why?
    Mr. Beardon holds the view and expresses it as I do that bin Laden could not possibly have pulled this off. He tells Dan
    Rather (who I suspect never bought the official conspiracy theory either, that  in addition to the bin Laden investigation
    there should be a “Team B” investigation. Watch these two carefully.
    Rather is trying to get him to tell what he may know.
    Beardon while alluding to “reasons more realistic” for 9/11 doesn’t spill but you can tell that he doesn’t, for one minute buy the “Official COnspiracy Theory”
    Wonder what he’d say now.
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnihfVw5MOc

  16. WTF says:

    Nobody’s listening to you Prufrock

    You’re irrelevant

    Stoopid, fucking Kanadian dumbass

  17. Rooster Cogburn says:

    A question to Prufrock: Do you realize how stoopid you are ?

    A Canadian national who resides in Thailand sits with his laptop in a short time bar on Soi 6 Pattaya and dispensing idiotic advice to the U.S administration all while your …. is smoking customers upstairs.

  18. Careful Kenny says:

    Geez, what a retard (Prufrock).

  19. Prufrock says:

    Hi Rooster (BBG)
    Back in the saddle I see.
    Just remember that when you post on a big-back horse you can land on your own balls.
     
    BBG? Only you’d be so asinine as to actually believe that the US government takes advice from ANYONE except
    the corporatistas who have it in their stinking fetid blood soaked pockets.
     
    You pathetic dumbass ( you’re angry now I see. Must have been that reference to your own “sunsetted” academic career.
     
    Go flip a burger.

  20. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    I say…I say, has anyone here. I say has anyone here seen the King of Stoopid?

    There he blows on Patpong Soi 4

  21. Tim says:

    Notstickman changed his site again. He took down the Clayton Wade slander piece.
    Did Clayton get to him again?
     
     
     

  22. Dave says:

    In case you are reading this Stick, good one today buddy.
    How will Keith Summers twist that eh?
     
     

  23. Fake John Galt says:

    I am in the process of   preparing a hit piece on Clayton Wade.
    Learn more about SE Asias real estate tycoon.
    Stay tuned people.
    Who is next?

  24. John Galt says:

    I decided to hold off on that Wade piece.
     

  25. John Galt says:

    People, the last post was not me…. sorry.  There are impersonators out there.
    I will be doing a piece on Clayton Wade.
    Stay tuned.

  26. Sticky Rice says:

    Don’t you know that it’s just a couple pedophiles still posting on this site hoping to see more photos or gps locations on where to fiddle kiddies. Sex should not be promoted Kids should not be exploited. Live and learn.

  27. Fake John Galt says:

    Editor’s note: Personal information redacted.

    The legal age is …in Thailand, and that’s how you find virgins so don’t go calling people …. until you know the whole story.
     
    The Galt

  28. Russell Keith Summers says:

    I am not a pedophile! The legal age is 15 in Thailand!
     
     

  29. Fake John G. says:

    So, people,…..what did I do to David? He let people claim I was a pedophile in his forum. I published many times that all my girls were of legal age. None were under 15 in Thailand.
    I did follow up and I did publish his name. It was up on line for a few months. Then I took it down. I was called all kinds of names and they tried to smear me because I knew Stickman’s real name and I knew where he worked and he knew where I worked and Marc Knew where David worked and his ex let me in on the whole story and I will publish that in an upcoming article.
    Stickman was trying to employ a little “shock and awe” to run me off before I “outed” him to the public and shock and awed him and his buddied and shut them up.
    I dubbed that web site “MangoSquash” and that pet name took hold. MangoSquash continued to squash people until such time as one close friend of David’s deemed him over the line and he contacted me with David’s full name. I was going to destroy him for being friend with Stickman. When I published what his last name rhymed with, that was it. It was over. David closed up shop. It was only in the past 6 months or so that David removed the articles about me. That shit he did on the web site was an embarrassment to us all anyhow.
    Generally, it holds true that if you don’t have the balls to identify yourself and take credit for what you believe in, then you probably have no business publishing it. Right Marc? MangoSauce became a tool for Stickman in taking my name, address, phone number, DOB and publishing them to the web.My thinking is that David is more prominent in Thailand now than before. Some say he is the new owner of Thai Visa. That’s why it’s gone downhill so fast.
    He certainly doesn’t want to screw that up. I certainly can understand that. 
    Now my mom knows what I was uo to and that hurt. Her friends and neighbors all got emails and letters with pictures of me on the Man Tour & I was physically threatened, called a pedophile, even though my girls were of legal consent in Thailand.
    Stickman miss-calculate the results of that activity.. and today in leu of the truth, he claims that he met with David of MangoSauce and accidentally divulged the information…. (must of just slipped out of Stickman’s shirt pocket and on to the table) David was in the business of smear and humiliation. Not all his articles targeted people but a great many did. It wasn’t of any interest to me because I like a little substance with any good roast.Why? Because he dished it out on me and Marc started the dirty keith website and it just went from there and my goal is to drive Stickman out of Thailand with my upcoming atrticle.
    Stay tuned people the fun is begun.
    The Galt

  30. Fake John G. says:

     
    Sure , I know the swirl guy. We are not friends but we did run into each other often. We only spoke with him a few times.
    From what he tells me, he is innocent. Never took girls under 15.
    Just a frame up job by some do-gooders.
    Photo
    1_21_100807_pedophile_hunt1.jpg

  31. Ringo says:

    Russell Keith Summers, you also wrote about knowing John Mark Karr the pedophile In 2006 he claimed he murdered a little girl in the US.
    How do up know these people?  Just happen to run into them? Is there a network where you guys arrange activities? Is this something the sex tour you worked for was into?
    Very weird.

  32. What a nonce says:

    nuff said

  33. Haiku Junglist says:

    I met dis young gal from Sai Kaew
    She gobbled my cock oh so well
    She was only nineteen
    When I filled her with cream
    How I miss that young gal from Sai Kaew

  34. Just Sayin says:

    HJ
    At least she was 19
    lol

  35. Fake John G. says:

    The Great One here…All publicity is good they say.
    I am getting over 200 hits on my website. Never mind, they all think I am some wacko fugitive pervert banging underage girls.It’s the hits that count.

    This is great. Keep up the comments people.

  36. John GaIt says:

    To all my people.
    My latest hit piece is up at notstickman.
    Over 200 hits last week!

  37. Rocky says:

    He took a taxi, instead of a bus…AND he let the meter run. Stickman would never do that.
     
    Way to go Keith. The best revenge is living well. You go brother.

  38. The nice thing about being me… is that there are so many of me…

     Attention to all those copies out there — let’s get with the ellipses people!

    (elbow bump, elbow bump) Mr Rocky….   actually, I did a Stickman.  I let someone else pay for the taxi!

  39. Timmy B says:

    The great Stickman columns of yore and serves as an exemplar of what’s wrong with Stickman, his attitude toward Thailand, life in Thailand, and enjoying and being happy in Thailand.

    Facts and philosophy are what’s wrong with this week’s Stickman.

    Factually, his characterization of the Thai traffic enforcement system and, the gross over exaggeration of the danger of dealing with Thai policeman when you’re not guilty of anything are waaaay wrong.
    Philosophically, the engendered attitude toward living in a foreign culture and country are waaaaay wrong too.
    So let’s get right into what Stickman gets wrong and what is wrong about his approach to Thai life.
    First factual error, the Western system of traffic enforcement is better than the Thai system.
    The Thai traffic enforcement system is rational, consistent, effective, and humane—once you wrap your head around it and ditch your preconceived notion that everything in The World is better than everything in Thailand.
    For a person like Stickman who has lived in Thailand for years, speaks Thai fluently, reads Thai, is married to a Thai lady, and who for years spent his workday in close contact with Thais its a bit surprising he is unable to step back and see the forest instead of just individual trees.
    Frankly, the Thai system of traffic enforcement is superior to the U.S. system.
    In the U.S., hordes of highly paid policeman use expensive high tech equipment and spend their lives mostly enforcing and ticketing infractions that have little relationship to safety and exist mostly as a way for the police department to pay its salaries and put money into local government coffers. In Los Angeles, a common sight is a LAPD traffic officer whose salary and benefits costs taxpayers in excess of $100,000 a year with a brand new BMW motorcycle equipped with a shotgun, handgun, taser, handcuffs, multiple magazines, state of the art radio and laptop computer with a $5,000 laser gun sitting on a side street where there hasn’t been an accident or fatality in years handing out traffic tickets to every car exceeding a speed limit set so low 80% of the cars violate it everyday—– and where effective countermeasures like active laser jamming have been made illegal.

    Once in awhile, it is clear that the police just want some money. On the motorcycle, the policeman will claim that you didn’t keep to the left. Since “left” is not defined this is an indefensible charge. On these occasions, I give the policeman 100 or 200 THB and he’s happy.
    Frankly, giving the policeman $3 is hardly a momentous event in my day. My daily cuppa at Starbucks costs about the same.
    Getting your panties in a bunch and running back to New Zealand because you have to pay a $3 fine once a month hardly seems rational and anything, even if it is morally wrong, anything where the consequence is a $3 fine can’t really be that wrong.Seat belt laws, cell phone laws, low speed limits, laws about having a dog in your pickup bed, baby seat laws, window tinting regulations, etc. generate millions for local governments and provide policeman ready excuses to engage in what would be otherwise unconstitutional searches of people cars and otherwise unconstitutional interrogations of people going about their lawful business.
    In the U.S., any ticket is going to cost you over $100 and, more likely, close to $300. Add on the 10% increase in your insurance for 3 years from the points on your license and, even a minor infraction, will end up costing you almost $1000 — that’s dollars not baht. Multiple tickets will cost you $1,000s in fines, higher insurance, and inconvenience.
    In Thailand, breaking the law and getting caught costs 100 THB ($3) in the Issan countryside, 200 THB ($7) in Bangkok, and 400-800 THB in Silom and, maybe on Sukhumvit between Soi 4 and Thonglo. Getting ticketed adds no points, no increase in your insurance, no record kept, and no danger of losing your license. If  you keep your wits about you and your temper under control, a traffic stop is equivalent to a stop and go penalty at the local racetrack.
    Infrequently, you’ll have to pay for something you haven’t done. On a motorcycle in Bangkok, it’s not keeping to the left side of the road. On the freeways in and around Bangkok, it’s alleged speeding.  In the Issan countryside, you’ll never have to pay when your innocent. In all cases, the fine is inconsequential—less than $10.
    Last summer I drove 20,000 kilometers all over Northeast and Northwest Thailand. Most of the time, I was flagrantly violating Thai traffic laws by doing twice the posted speed limit, running red lights, making illegal U-turns, parking where I shouldn’t and even driving the wrong way down one way streets.
    I drove through numerous police road blocks including the ones on the most heavily traveled highways in and out of Bangkok to Korat, Pattaya, and Ching Mai and didn’t pay  a single fine.
    I was stopped only two of three times and when I was stopped, the policeman asked for my license and when a valid Thai license was produced I was waved through.
    During these 3 months, I paid zero money to policeman outside of Bangkok.
    My experience is far, far, far from what Stickman describes and reading his column I wonder if we are talking about the same country.

    Hey, you infrequently have to pay large fines for things you haven’t done in the U.S. and you encounter corruption in the U.S. too.

    Third, the claim that Thai police will take you to jail for no reason, charge you with a serious crime you haven’t committed, and make you pay an enormous fine for your freedom.
    I’ve been waved over a couple of times in the wee hours of the morning with a scantily clad girl on the back of my motorcycle. Both times, the police made the girl empty her purse and felt up her breasts and vagina (through her clothing) looking for drugs and simply asked for my license. Each time when nothing was found we were on our way within 5 minutes.
    When you are innocent, you can argue if you are polite about it but, once in awhile, even when you’re innocent you’ve got to pay.
    Compare the Thai system and the U.S. system and you make the judgment which is more driver friendly and civilized.
    My vote goes for the Thai way.
    Whatever way you go, running away from Thailand because twice a month you have to pay $20 in traffic fines seems a bit cowardly.
    Second, the Stickman claim that Thai police target farang——not just target farang but, actually. go hunting for them.I don’t know where Stickman drives or how he drives, but his contention that a white face is an automatic infraction doesn’t match reality.
    On the motorcycle in Bangkok last summer, I was stopped 2 or 3 times in 3 months of daily driving. Each time the drill was  pretty much the same, the policeman asked for my license.. When this was produced, he asked for my tax stamp. When this was produced he asked to see a copy of my registration. When this was produced he waved me through. Notice that I respect Thai laws by obeying all the paperwork requirements just like I do in the U.S.
     
    Every time I have been pulled over in a Bangkok police motorcycle roadblock, the police were pulling over everyone and everyone was paying. It was equal opportunity corruption.
    Reservation girls target farang. Thai traffic policemen don’t.
    Third, the claim that Thai police will take you to jail for no reason, charge you with a serious crime you haven’t committed, and make you pay an enormous fine for your freedom.
    I’ve been waved over a couple of times in the wee hours of the morning with a scantily clad girl on the back of my motorcycle. Both times, the police made the girl empty her purse and felt up her breasts and vagina (through her clothing) looking for drugs and simply asked for my license. Each time when nothing was found we were on our way within 5 minutes.
    I’ve also been through numerous drunk driver roadblocks. Again, the policeman took a look, smelled my breath, decided I was obviously not drunk and waved me through.
    Very professional.

    If you keep your wits about you and offer to pay the fine on the spot, you won’t even get arrested and spend a night in jail.
    If you get pulled over for something serious and  you are guilty, offer to pay right there. If you don’t have much money on you, ask to go to an ATM to get some.
    Most of the time, the money you pay will be less than what you will have to pay later and, after all, you are guilty and the lower on the organizational chart you settle the less you pay.
    Try to pay the officer directly. If that doesn’t work try to pay the officer in charge on the scene. If you are taken back to the police station pay the supervisor there.Never have I had any problems with false accusations or anything more serious than a small fine.
    I put it to you that you are in more danger in the U.S.
    Innocent people constantly get shot and killed in the U.S. during routine traffic stops because they didn’t want to kiss the policeman’s ass or didn’t show the proper “respect”.
    In fact, traffic police corruption has cost me waaaaaaay more in the U.S. than in Thailand.
    My theory is that the farang accounts you read on the internet, including Stickman’s, stem from Western drivers who get pulled over or go through a roadblock, don’t understand what is happening, get on their high horse and start yelling, screaming, and protesting and start a pissing contest with the policeman.
    Most of the time, they are guilty of something like drunk driving or speeding and try to bluster and bluff their way through by putting up an aggressive confrontational front and hope that the policeman will back down.
    The other times, they are not guilty of anything but are drunk or high, don’t keep their cool, and end up putting themselves in a pickle.
    These guys are idiots because the proper way to handle the situation where you are guilty is just pay the fine. It simple, straightforward, takes care of the problem, its cheap and, frankly, it’s justice being served. You broke the law so own up to your words and action and pay the penalty.
    Don’t make the policeman beat around the bush, just offer him a reasonable amount.
    Even if you are guilty of something like drunk driving which, in The World, would end up costing you $1,000’s of dollars of legal fees and fines, result in a permanent criminal record that will follow you for the rest of your life, prevent you from being hired by most large corporations in the U.S., and make  you waste the next 10 weekends in an orange jumpsuit picking up trash by the side of the highway, the worst that will happen to you in Thailand is you will give up a little money.
     
    A couple of hundred dollars and just going home with the incident behind you is waaaaay less than the what you pay and the consequences of being caught doing the exact same thing in The World.
    Which brings us to Stickman’s philosophy on living in a foreign country.
    The proper attitude toward being in Thailand is to think of it as a game.
    First, be thankful there actually exists this wonderful place full of things waaaay different than anything you’ve experienced before, that will yield up wonderful unforgettable experiences, never dreamed of adventures, and is covered in a swarm of beautiful, both physically and spiritually, women predisposed toward loving you.
    Second, be thankful that you actually have the time, the money, and the good fortune to be able to spend a portion or your life there. Most guys are stuck in dead end jobs, doing uninteresting work they have no interest in, getting paid shit and pissing way their lives grinding out a subsistence life and life style. Be thankful you’re not them.
    Third, realize that all the wonderful things are not going to fall from heaven and land in your lap while you are sitting by the pool getting a tan. You have to go out and find them and, also, you have to figure out how to get them. Sort of like the Sword and the Stone. The Sword is sitting there embedded in the stone and you can only have it if you figure out the puzzle.
    So the proper philosophy for living in Thailand is, in the immortal words of Wayne from Wayne’s World —– Game On!
    Win, lose,or draw, be thankful you have a seat at table, chips in front of you, and get dealt in.
    Who could ask for anything more or not be happy with the situation?
    The answer is Stickman and all the other Cheap Charlie, bitch and moaners, and the Haters who seem to have nothing better to do than fill the comment sections of the blogs with their jealousy, hatred, and, general dissatisfaction, with the lives they have chosen.
    If all you do is sit around getting jealous at what the other guy has and bitching and moaning about what you don’t have, you’ll end up like Stickman —— giving up in defeat.
    Think about these two philosophies and make your own decision about which is best.
    This comment by an Anonymous Expat sums it up:
    I’m not interested in getting into an exhaustive, point by point battle over this issue, but it has always fascinated me that mild-mannered Kenny is so disliked by the Thailand ex-pat community, even on the days when he posted on the Mango site and didn’t have his own site, he was always disliked on a gut level, and I think that says something about the Thai ex-pat community, that pretty much everyone, including you, dislike him.
    I would almost use Kenny as a litmus test for what sort of ex-pat you are dealing with – if you like Kenny, you are one kind of guy with probably one set of attitudes towards Thai people and Thailand, if you hate him, you are another. It’s almost like the way you can tell a huge amount about a person and his attitude towards success and achievement by wether he is anti-American or not.
    I’ll tell you partially why I seem to be more emotionally involved in this than would appear normal for someone who had no involvement in the affair. I came to Thailand a bright eyed young man and had tons of good experiences. I begin reading the blogs on Thailand and became poisoned by their bitter mentality and became bitter myself – it didn’t matter that nothing they said really matched my experience, that my interactions with Thai people were so much more positive, at the end of the day I was a newbie, things were confusing and uncertain and could be explained all sorts of ways, and the Old Guard spoke with authority.
    I began to hate Thai people and Thailand based on the supposedly wise and canny revelations of the Old Guard on what’s supposedly really behind the Thai smile and similar nonsense, and my happiness in Thailand turned to bile, based almost entirely on what I read. I know, I know, it’s my fault that I allowed myself to be so easily led, and that’s true, it is, but what can I say I was young and was looking for wisdom from the people who had been in country for longer, and I trusted what I read online more than what I actually experienced and my own judgement. I also personally know several people, young guys, who became bitter and hateful and poisoned about Thai people based on reading the Thai blogs, when their own experiences never matched what they read online.
    It took me a while to regain my independence of judgement and realize that something is seriously wrong with the Thailand ex-pat community, and that they poison the country for countless people. This all may sound very silly, but I think it is far more serious than it might seem, and a huge portion of the Thai ex-pat comm is quite literally ruined by immersion in the Thai blog scene.
    Kenny was something completely different – a guy who was not bitter and who had a positive take on things and tried to figure them out. I suddenly felt that my own relative success and fun living in Thailand and interacting with Thais was not a fluke but might be the norm for a normal person. I felt more sane, no longer such a standout in my attitude towards Thailand.
    But at the end of the day Kenny was jumping into a pond populated by a particular kind of fish, and I don’t think he ever got over his amazement at what kind of fish he suddenly found himself amongst, but the fish certainly didn’t want him disturbing their pond.
    And that’s cool. It’s all over now at any rate. The Thai ex-pat community is what it is and will never be anything different, and I understand and accept that now, and why it has to be that way, why Thailand draws these kinds of people, and why no one should challenge the world which these people have built for themselves, however fictional.

  40. XMan says:

     
     
     
    I would like to plug keihts products
    Our company started out in 2001 with any eye towards software development.  Soon we soon shifted into a manufacturing mode to produce very select lines of motorcycle turn signals.   The turn signal business lead us back into technology with the prospect of utilizing high current LEDs in 2003-04.  And some years later, we have turned the bulk of our efforts into full scale LED lighting applications and products.
    russell keith summers john galt asian signals asian cycles asiasignals asiancycles  notstickman.com  notkeith.com solidstateledlighting.com solidstateledlighting
     

  41. Chris says:

    I never did get “expats” in Thailand the first thing they told me is “you will never be Thai” well, I never thought I would be and I never had any intention of being Thai however the difference between they and I is, I respect the people and the culture, I do not think things in my country is better nor do I preach my ideas as superior, it is a choice to live and work here, in my mind I feel more happy and free in Thailand than I ever did in my own country (USA) and I intend to retire from my very good job here with benefits and live the rest of my live here with my family who is Thai. In any event I am not an expat and I would not want to be one, I am an immigrant and I am so happy Thailand has accepted me for who I am and given me more opportunity than I ever had in my own country.

  42. Voice of Reason II says:

    Here is some advice Chris.

    Don’t go to the Big Mango and make friends there. 

  43. Chris says:

    Voice of Reason II, I have no intention of doing so and I can say the same thing here that people told me in my own country, “love it or leave it”.

    Those who are bitter and hate Thailand should just shut up and go home or go somewhere else.  I do not know why someone would stay somewhere that they thought sucked so much or made them so angry and unhappy and those who say they invested everything and have no where to go, yeah well, should have done some research. If you think you need to “become Thai” to live in peace here well, you are not happy with yourself and you never will be. 

    So here is some advice for you, if you hate it here so much and you dislike how things are done if you don’t like the culture or the people LEAVE, no one invited you to come and be rude in the first place. 

  44. Real Stickman says:

    More advice.

    If you are looking for a wife go down to Soi Cowboy or Nana Plaza and look for girls who have only worked in the bars for less than a month.

    Those are the girls that haven’t been spoiled by the industry yet.

    Get them away from the other girls and the mamasan.

    If you can find an unspoiled girl you have a chance of keeping her a good girl who will be faithful to you.

    Read my weekly column for more details.  

  45. Real Keith Summers says:

    Thanks for the advice Chris.

    I went to China.

    It’s great here. Love it.  

  46. Michael Francis Smith Spuul.com formerly of Yahoo Singapore says:

    I took your advice. I ran to Singapore.

  47. Nicholas Dattoma BEA Systems says:

    Me too. I scurried to India. 

    It smells here and so do the girls.  

  48. Chris says:

    If you are interested in a “good girl” get one that has a university education, speaks your language fluently (unless you speak hers fluently)  and a real job or a business that does not require your financing. If you want a lasting relationship and a family make sure that you are close in age, education and social status, I would further suggest that if the girls family requires you to “pay” them or buy them a house run like hell, I would think common sense would dictate that but it doesn’t seem to be so. I doubt you would marry a prostitute in your country why would you marry one in Thailand?   

  49. Sockpuppet Detector says:

    Found! Kenny commenting as…well, too many to mention.

  50. Really Kenny? says:

    Providing relationship advice? How many decades have you been single now?

  51. Cal. State Cholo says:

    Don’t pay attention to those fools. I’ll hook you up with 1 of my hos at a 50% discount.

  52. Chris says:

    This is the poorest attempt to TROLL I have ever seen! And if you are not in Thailand why do you even care? 

  53. King of Trolls says:

    That is the poorest attempt to perform a sockpuppet comment I have ever seen! Come on kenny. You lost. Live and learn.

  54. My girl is different says:

    Chris, my girlfriend is an ex-bargirl. I am engaged to her & let me tell you my girlfriend really is different to those other awful bargirls. How do I know? Because she never received anal sex without a condom & today she’s cut down to doing yaba 3 times a week

    Her parents have asked for 1 million baht sinsot, an amount I’m happy to pay, however its the ongoing payments to her family that are keeping me working extra hours. First it was the buffalo has lockjaw, now I’m told their pet elephant needs cosmetic surgery. Still I know she’s a good girl & truly loves me

    Percy 

  55. Chris says:

    In the old days (80′s) we TROLLED by turning a website to this for 12 hours:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1orMXD_Ijbs\

    But it was in good fun we weren’t douche bags like you!!!

    THAT IS PROPER TROLLING!!!

  56. New York Times Critic says:

    Chris,

    You express a view that many agree with. There is a large vocal contingent of expats who seem to hate Thailand and everything Thai, including the girls, but they never leave and never move on. What gives with these guys? If they were sane rational people why do they stay here?

    The answer to the puzzle lies in the question “Move on to what?”

    Uniformly, these expats have nothing to move on to. Most live on less than 30,000 baht a month. The money comes from modest pensions, working as mid-level English teachers or similar low paying jobs, or by depleting savings. They were low income back in their home countries because they had limited marketable skills or personalities and they are low income in Thailand for the same reason. 

    When you look at alternatives (China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.) there is nowhere that offers a comparable lifestyle with that income. Despite the drawbacks of Thailand on 30,000, not being able to afford  GoGo girls, not being able to drink constantly, and living in a small room, it’s the best that’s available with that money and its better than life in their home countries. 

    So they complain about Thailand. 

    If they were back in their home countries they would complain there too.

    The root of their complaints has nothing to do with Thailand. It has do with having no money. 

    Before I get flamed let me note that these comments only apply to a segment of Thailand expats not the majority of them. There are scads of middle class and well to do expats who do not fit this description. 

     

  57. Chris says:

    New York Times Critic, well said BRAVO! 

  58. My girl is different says:

    The internet wasn’t even around in the 80′s. I think Chris is a lying dimwit. You must be a regular  customer of the Big Mango bar

    I keep restocking the  inlaws fish pond but every man & his dog come & steal the fish at night. The restocking fee is 6000 baht, an amount I pay every 2 weeks. I have asked the family to keep an eye on the pond at night but they are too busy gambling, drinking  or watching the cartoon network. I think I might have to close this venture down

    Percy 

  59. Again We See Kenny's Stupidity says:

    Kenny! Your sock puppet army won’t bring the readers back.

  60. Chris says:

    My girl is different, maybe you should stock it with some of the mangoes you are so fond of. 

  61. Mr. Obvious says:

    Yes, a normal person would move on. A normal person wouldn’t carry an obsession about a bar 1/2 the way around the world or the people who were once associated with it year after year. But then again it’s obvious that Kenny isn’t normal. Kenny is the bitching, moaning expat he incessantly laments about. He just generally bitches and moans about expats the way he claims expats generally bitch and moan about Thais.

    The difference is the expats don’t obsess about it the way Kenny obsesses about them.

  62. Cal. State Cholo says:

    Quit ya pussy bitch whining. Kenny gonna be runnin my hos next year and be makin the big bling bling. So whos got yer back?

    Same ol shit playin out again.

  63. NY Times Sockpuppet says:

    Let me repeat the same thing over and over and over until someone listens to me. I am not a kenny sockpuppet. Really. I am just Chris. No, wait, I am Robert.

  64. NY Times Sockpuppet says:

    OK, OK. It’s just me, kenny, trying to breath life back into my Rootkit infected website.

  65. Dear Mr. Obvious says:

    Michael Francis Smith, Nicholas Dattoma, and Graham Jones started, promoted, and still own the Big Mango Bar.

    The bar recruits young poor uneducated girls to work as prostitutes in their business and for the last 8 years every time these girls sold their bodies money went into the pockets of Michael Francis Smith, Nicholas Dattoma, and Graham Jones.

    These human cockroaches still own the bar, still comment regularly on their blog, still make money off these girls, and still brag in print about “showing customers a good time” when they come to Bangkok. 

    Two of them have been forced to get jobs in the IT industry because their Mango money isn’t enough to live on but they still own the Mango and money still goes into their pockets every time their “young female employees” spread their legs, bend over, or get down on their knees. 

    Where did you get the line “people who were once associated with it”?

    They were not just “associated” with the prostitution and human trafficking. They started their business, promoted it on the internet, sold shares in it to investors, moved it to new location, recently remodeled that relocation, recently paid Stickman for an advertisement masquerading as an article where Stickman promoted Graham Jones as a great bar owner and they still recruit and employ prostitutes.

    END OF STORY!

     

  66. Pimps and Hos and Thai Hookers and Sluts and Bangkok and Pattaya and Cheap Slut Gogo Girls and San Fernando Valley and Kenny says:

    kenny kenny kenny

    why still spread the hate and lies?

    tisk tisk

  67. Uncle Frank says:

    “Dear Mr. Obvious” – AKA Kenny

    Pimps and Hos….. that comment nailed it.

    This entire website is filled with lies and hate.

  68. SWSM is Kenny Speak For Street Walker Super Market Whores Hookers Prostitutes for Sex Tourists says:

    Kenny knows it all all he knows as Master of the Universe

    “Other Thailand Nightlife Blogs blow a lot of smoke and frequently play fast and loose with the truth to promote their hidden agendas.

    All to serve the higher purpose of getting laid better, cheaper, and more efficiently.”

  69. SWSM is Kenny Speak For Street Walker Super Market Whores Hookers Prostitutes for Sex Tourists says:

    Kenny knows it all all he knows as Master of the Universe

    “Other Thailand Nightlife Blogs blow a lot of smoke and frequently play fast and loose with the truth to promote their hidden agendas.

    All to serve the higher purpose of getting laid better, cheaper, and more efficiently.”

    Ohhhh yeah.

  70. SWSM is Kenny Speak For Street Walker Super Market Whores Hookers Prostitutes for Sex Tourists says:

    Is this the legacy of Kenny?

    “All to serve the higher purpose of getting laid better, cheaper, and more efficiently.”

  71. SWSM is Kenny Speak For Street Walker Super Market Whores Hookers Prostitutes for Sex Tourists says:

    There is no problem with Stickman other than a lack of SWSM negotiating.

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